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	<title>Comments on: George and Darren (and Jeff)</title>
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	<link>http://martyholman.com/2010/07/georgeanddarrenandjeff/</link>
	<description>Inspired by a true story</description>
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		<title>By: jeffsdeepthoughts</title>
		<link>http://martyholman.com/2010/07/georgeanddarrenandjeff/comment-page-1/#comment-13360</link>
		<dc:creator>jeffsdeepthoughts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 01:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://martyholman.com/?p=2441#comment-13360</guid>
		<description>Wow!  Penn said that?  He&#039;s not generally the most pro-Christian of atheists. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!  Penn said that?  He&#039;s not generally the most pro-Christian of atheists.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennwith2ns</title>
		<link>http://martyholman.com/2010/07/georgeanddarrenandjeff/comment-page-1/#comment-13269</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennwith2ns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://martyholman.com/?p=2441#comment-13269</guid>
		<description>I like Jeff&#039;s questions. I also liked Darren&#039;s phrase about people &quot;letting their loves lose on the world,&quot; although whether or not I agree with it might turn into a question of semantics.  
 
I agree with George that Truth is True regardless of who (if anyone) believes it. I think the phrase &quot;true for them,&quot; while fairly ubiquitous, is a little sloppy. I feel like Darren might better have said, &quot;Basing a worldview on personal experience is fine so long as you don&#8217;t extend your worldview to other people, &#8217;cause it might not be *part of their personal experience.*&quot; I have a hard time with the idea of Truth being subjective and therefore not universally applicable. I can agree that Truth may not be KNOWN, or may be partially known or even (gasp!) incorrectly known, but if there isn&#039;t an objective Truth (whether or not we can actually BE objective about it), then the stuff we refer to as true or truth should be called something else. Like: personally experientially verifiable, or something like that. 
 
As to Wesley&#039;s comment, I agree with that, too. There is a chance that I, as a Christian, am wrong about the truth, and there&#039;s a chance I&#039;m right. But as the atheist Penn Jillette (of Penn and Teller) says, &quot;If you really believe that there is eternal life and that someone might not get it . . . how much to you have to hate someone NOT to proseletyze?&quot; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Jeff&#039;s questions. I also liked Darren&#039;s phrase about people &quot;letting their loves lose on the world,&quot; although whether or not I agree with it might turn into a question of semantics.  </p>
<p>I agree with George that Truth is True regardless of who (if anyone) believes it. I think the phrase &quot;true for them,&quot; while fairly ubiquitous, is a little sloppy. I feel like Darren might better have said, &quot;Basing a worldview on personal experience is fine so long as you don&rsquo;t extend your worldview to other people, &rsquo;cause it might not be *part of their personal experience.*&quot; I have a hard time with the idea of Truth being subjective and therefore not universally applicable. I can agree that Truth may not be KNOWN, or may be partially known or even (gasp!) incorrectly known, but if there isn&#039;t an objective Truth (whether or not we can actually BE objective about it), then the stuff we refer to as true or truth should be called something else. Like: personally experientially verifiable, or something like that. </p>
<p>As to Wesley&#039;s comment, I agree with that, too. There is a chance that I, as a Christian, am wrong about the truth, and there&#039;s a chance I&#039;m right. But as the atheist Penn Jillette (of Penn and Teller) says, &quot;If you really believe that there is eternal life and that someone might not get it . . . how much to you have to hate someone NOT to proseletyze?&quot;</p>
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		<title>By: George and Darren: the Finale &#124; Martyholman.com</title>
		<link>http://martyholman.com/2010/07/georgeanddarrenandjeff/comment-page-1/#comment-13249</link>
		<dc:creator>George and Darren: the Finale &#124; Martyholman.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://martyholman.com/?p=2441#comment-13249</guid>
		<description>[...] 1part 2part 3 &#8211; with [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 1part 2part 3 &#8211; with [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://martyholman.com/2010/07/georgeanddarrenandjeff/comment-page-1/#comment-13198</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://martyholman.com/?p=2441#comment-13198</guid>
		<description>I love what Jeff asks and how the conversation turns towards love. Sometimes (well a lot of times) love is misconstrued as altruism even in Christian circles. But when I think of the persecuted Church around the world it is not altruism that is pushing them into deeper persecution for the sake of the Gospel - it is love of God and love of the world by the Holy Spirit that spurs them on to continue to work steadfastly (a thought inspired by David Platt&#039;s book &quot;Radical&quot;).  
 
For Darren - I know that you&#039;re pretty familiar with the command to preach the gospel to the world. So if someone believes they have the eternal truth why should it not be proclaimed to the world if it could even reach just one other person? For me it&#039;s not about increasing church event attendance but about &quot;spreading the love&quot; - isn&#039;t that what you&#039;d want someone to do for you if you were on your deathbed instead of withholding the cure? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love what Jeff asks and how the conversation turns towards love. Sometimes (well a lot of times) love is misconstrued as altruism even in Christian circles. But when I think of the persecuted Church around the world it is not altruism that is pushing them into deeper persecution for the sake of the Gospel &#8211; it is love of God and love of the world by the Holy Spirit that spurs them on to continue to work steadfastly (a thought inspired by David Platt&#8217;s book &#8220;Radical&#8221;). </p>
<p>For Darren &#8211; I know that you&#8217;re pretty familiar with the command to preach the gospel to the world. So if someone believes they have the eternal truth why should it not be proclaimed to the world if it could even reach just one other person? For me it&#8217;s not about increasing church event attendance but about &#8220;spreading the love&#8221; &#8211; isn&#8217;t that what you&#8217;d want someone to do for you if you were on your deathbed instead of withholding the cure?</p>
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		<title>By: Wesley Jank</title>
		<link>http://martyholman.com/2010/07/georgeanddarrenandjeff/comment-page-1/#comment-13196</link>
		<dc:creator>Wesley Jank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://martyholman.com/?p=2441#comment-13196</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed reading that, thanks for posting it </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed reading that, thanks for posting it</p>
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		<title>By: gnormanlippert</title>
		<link>http://martyholman.com/2010/07/georgeanddarrenandjeff/comment-page-1/#comment-13193</link>
		<dc:creator>gnormanlippert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://martyholman.com/?p=2441#comment-13193</guid>
		<description>George mixed up &quot;accept&quot; and &quot;except&quot;, and &quot;effect&quot; and &quot;affect&quot;.  Duh. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George mixed up &quot;accept&quot; and &quot;except&quot;, and &quot;effect&quot; and &quot;affect&quot;.  Duh.</p>
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