Jesus and Beer
- I’ve had beer before.
You should know this. The reason you should know this is because I may come across as someone who has never had beer before. If I’m being very honest with myself, I hate beer. It may be because of my taste for the sweet, and that beer comes across to me as so bitter – like nasty bread or something. Today I praise God that He has delivered me though from believing in some way that beer in itself is evil.
I love my parents, but they were fed a line of crap all their lives from a group of overly pious religious leaders who, in the early part of the 20th century, teamed up with an overly pious group of feminists, to launch an incredible attack on anything “pub” driven. This of course trickled down to me as a child.
Enter yesterday. I attended a party of a group of people who love Jesus and who drink beer. I didn’t drink the beer. Remember, I think it tastes like nasty bread most of the time. But I did appreciate the relational nature the beer brought to the party. I know there’s a lot of whatifs involved in the subject conversation of beer – “What if”someone’s an alcoholic? “What if” we cause someone to stumble? These are important questions that should not be ignored, but by-in-large the same people who highlight this piousness choose to ignore the waste that goes on in America or never see the problem with attending the buffet and stuffing themselves silly on a regular basis.
The way I see it, if Jesus were at the party I attended yesterday, his interest would have nothing to do with what the people were drinking or eating, but he would have looked at their hearts, and started from that point.
Oh yeah, and he probably would have thought beer tastes like nasty bread.
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Nice. But that pic is sooooooooo unfair; you should have mentioned that the fellow in the picture wasn’t passed out but was receiving a neck/shoulder massage from someone other than his wife.
The question of overindulgence is at the crux of the matter; and so is being sensitive to what makes others stumble. If we are intentional to address and avoid where anything (especially alcohol) encroaches on these two principles we are being responsible. This is probably why i shouldn’t have had a beer UNTIL i became a Christ follower.
As far as the “nasty”: it’s like coffee in some ways – it’s bitter and most people dress it up a bit to make it palatable. Folks who aren’t warm to the bitterness of beer usually don’t drink it or settle for some watered down product. To which i say, “what’s the point?” It’s why i drink black coffee.
When you’ve been down the ministry road with folks as long as I have you’ve seen way too much misery caused to parents, spouses, kids and one’ own person all because somebody “liked to drink beer.” Paul warns us to stay away from anything that would have the potential to “bring us under it’s power” and I’ve seen way too many self-confessed Jesus lovers bought under the power of a can (or
of Bud. No thanks, I’ll keep tellin’ folks that a dollar spent on a McD sweet tea is a pretty good deal and no potential to “mess up” your life or more importantly, someone else’s.
Thanks for the respectful way you disagreed Richard. It is appreciated. While I agree with most of the things you say, and respect the number of years you have indeed spent in ministry, I do have a thought for you. Is it more beneficial to try to change people’s every day habits or work on their hearts? One of the reasons I look at preaching against beer as futile is that it is really about an effect and not a cause. Beer is not the problem. Why someone feels the need to allow beer or food or television or video games or drugs to control them is the problem. So why not go after the problem?
Oh yeah though, I completely agree with you on the sweet tea from McD!
I’ll drink to that!
JK! Great post…I agree with both points. Just came back from a weekend spent with other Christians in ministry and felt free to drink beer…or not.
Marty -
You hit this one back, back, back, back, gone! Over the “Green Monster” itself, and I’m not even a Boston Fan! Great, healthy, balanced, perspective on a difficult topic.
One thing that always amazes me too is how we (Christ-followers) can use these arguments about being controlled by something, stumbling principles, etc., yet we never apply this same teaching to say something like gluttony. When was the last time someone who took this stand about beer also preached about over eating, or better yet, eating fatty non-healthy foods for that matter. They can and do kill, they are controlling, yet, Christians are the generally the ones who keep buffet bars in business. The point is, we need to have a healthy, balanced perspective. Your blog story reminds me of Jesus going to the after party at that wedding, the booze was flowing freely, and what He did at that party continues to challenge everything I too was taught growing up. Thanks for tackling a hard topic.
i ate a pork chop while enjoying this convo. miller 64 woulda washed it down nicely. oh well. praise God for letting a GERMAN gentile into the fold! i’m honored to call u all family.
Marty – When you talk about beer, are you referring to all alcohol (wine and liquor)? Enquiring minds want to know.
Marty while I enjoyed your post I think when you said “Why someone feels the need to allow beer or food or television or video games or drugs to control them is the problem. So why not go after the problem?” is the point most often missed by the “anti beer league.”
My old Boss (while he didn’t drink himself) was very against beer, but ok with Wine. A few times when he would take a group of us out to dinner people would have a glass or 2 of wine and he would happily pay for it, but not beer. After asking why he would pay for wine which has a much higher alcohol content the only reason he could give was that wine was “classy” and beer was “trashy.” Which by the way is why I don’t like Bud. My cousins are much older than I am and when we would have a family function they would get absolutely wasted on Bud or some other cheap beer. Even now I view bud as the beer of alcoholics…
All that to say I think the no alcohol people in there hearts are looking at beer the same way. They picture beer drinkers as wife beaters, and Mullet lovers.
I also think some of them view it as a badge of honor, or a way of appeasing God… one particular friend see’s the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross and knows that we aren’t worthy of that on our own. So he becomes very strict in his “spiritual walk” in an effort to become more worthy.
Posted this article on Facebook. http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/will071008.php3 Unfortunately, people who use the Bible to say all alcohol consumption is sin don’t understand that everyone who wrote the Bible, including Jesus consumed alcohol as a matter of necessity.
I know some on here cited Paul–but gluttony is a sin too. Gluttony–not eating. It’s not a sin to drink–but to drink excessively. One cited the pain and abuse perpetrated by those who drink, but what about the children who lose their parents to heart attacks, diabetes, ect. because of obesity?
Finally, to those who taught me growing up that jesus drank “new wine” that was non-alcoholic…..George Will’s article shows how that would defeat the purpose of drinking wine during those days.
Funerals I’ve had to conduct… age 19 missed the curve, ran motorcycle into a fence died at the scene. Contributing factor alcohol. Age 27 hit head on an killed on his way to work. Contributing factor alcohol by the other driver. (I had to tell his wife and 7 year old daughter that we was gone). Age 25 she was hit as she walked along the road just before Christmas. Contributing factor, the driver of the car was under the influence. I could repeat so many more but no need. You’re absolutly right… Christ died on a cross to set you free and give you liberty but why would you choose to walk close by anything that has the power to pull you into such awful bondage again?
>
I know, “it’ll never happen to me.” Oh, if I only had a dollar…….
(Thanks Marty… for your kind and respectful comments. I think we’re on the same page even if my book is older
In issues like this, it’s best to go to the source. The Bible not once condemns alcohol as sin, only drunkenness. Case closed.
Now, you may have a personal conviction not to drink alcohol. To YOU, it is sin. That’s fine. But be very careful not to call personal conviction Biblical fact if it’s not in the Bible.
Struggling to understand the great passion of Believers to defend an industry and a product that has brought so much grief to so many people. There’s a lot of “stuff” in our more modern society that you’ll not find addressed directly in the Scriptures with a specific “do not” attached. James however does tell us that when we know to do what is right and we willfully do not do what is right we have sinned. I don’t know how much alcohol I can drink before I have over-indulged which would be clearly a “wrong” (legally I guess we let the authorities tell us it’s .08) but I do clearly know and easily understand that not to indulge at all is always going to keep me on the right side of the issue.
My passion comes from having to pick up so many broken pieces with folks over a whole lot of years.
Richard, I should say I wonder whether people are defending an industry as opposed to defending the right of an individual to make his or her own decisions on items that aren’t “expressly forbidden in Scripture”. So the deeper issue is still important – why are people allowing these things to control them?
I agree with you Marty. The larger issue is what is wrong with people’s relationship with God that makes them dependent on substances. As a former drug rep, I can tell you Christians who eschew alcohol are taking antidepressants by the fistful. I was one of them, and it took me months to be weaned off them by a doctor. Millions of Christians are dependent on drugs and comfort themselves that they don’t drink. Lexapro, for instance, can cause you severe side effects (up to suicide) if you suddenly stop taking it.
I understand what the good man is saying about the horror he has witnessed. But you have to separate the substance from the sinner. A person kills someone, not the gun. Is that a good enough reason to drink? Absolutely not. I applaud anyone who chooses to refrain from something potentially harmful.
Do I drink? Yes. Why? because it is one of the simple pleasures. My wife gets me a bottle of Amaretto every Christmas as my only gift and I enjoy a sip or two every night till Valentines. I always have a bottle of Sambuca (85 proof) in my freezer as an aperitif (and it came in mighty handy when my son was teething.) And finally I drink rum and coke 1 or 2 nights a week while smoking my pipe to cleanse my palette between puffs.
I also have several guns, but have never shot anyone.
Since the issue you bring up is one about Christ followers and beer, for me the issue is why is it we are always asking how close we can get to the edge and not sin as opposed to how close can I get to Christ and be holy for He is holy. For me there is enough junk out there that I have to defend when it comes to Christ and His church, I just don’t need to hand people far from God another bullet, they have plenty of ammo as it is. Just my two cents.
If Martin Luther brewed it, I’ll drink it. Thank you Pastor Holman.
I am not passionate about defending alcohol, just about truth.
I understand many have personal convictions and I honor and respect them. To some, alcohol is sin. To some, rock music is sin. Etc.
Romans 14 expressly talks about these things, and Paul sums it up in verses 17-18 saying, “For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.”
For those who have experienced tragedy from those who have abused alcohol, I understand and respect the choice to abstain.
As for myself, I enjoy a glass of wine or a beer in the comfort of my home. I drink responsibly, and thankfully! For God created a pleasant drink and I give glory to Him for it.
He causes the grass to grow for the cattle,
And vegetation for the service of man,
That he may bring forth food from the earth,
And wine that makes glad the heart of man,
Oil to make his face shine,
And bread which strengthens man’s heart.
Psalm 104:14-15
Let us all be convinced in our own mind and in God’s word.
Richard,
Nobody is defending the Alcohol industry. You are saying don’t drink because it could have ill effects. Others are saying it’s not the alcohol that is the problem it’s the abuse or over indulgence of it.
Your argument that ‘there are plenty of modern things not addressed in the bible that are bad for us’ doesn’t work here. While I agree internet porn isn’t addressed specifically yet through context we know it’s bad for us, the bible Does address alcohol specifically and it’s use and abuse.
It’s the classic argument of Gun control vs. the NRA. One side argues that we should ban all sorts of weapons and have very tough licensing requirements. The other argues “guns don’t kill people, people kill people.”
Marty, I like the new layout but I would widen the 1st column with the post and comments… there seems tight with a lot of margin.
Everything is permissible for me—but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible for me—but I will not be mastered by anything.
1 CORINTHIANS 6:12
All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable All things are lawful, but not all things edify.
1 CORINTHIANS 10:23
Richard is dead on correct. But one step further…The issue is NOT that it is up to an individual to make up his own mind as to decide if it is ok or not but rather does it edify, or build up Christ or present Christ in the way we could or should. I personally believe that many things are lawful for me to do however, I should be more concerned about my self -control and my example. We called to be examples aren’t we?
At my work, people know me as a Christian. If I were at any time go to a company function and drink a beer I would immediately be questioned as to why I would drink when I was a Christian. These are not born again people who would question, but people who think that drinking is wrong for a Christian to do. Most if not all non-believers I know would take this position. So based upon “my testimony” I would choose NOT to drink as to not offend. It really has nothing to do if it is right or not. To defend a position is a losing battle.
The other issue here is not to place personal judgment on others who do drink. I will not judge others who drink because I am a mature Christian and know the difference between preference and sin when it comes to beer. But that does not excuse any of us to do it if we would cause others to stumble or ruin our testimony over a beer. Is it really worth that? Seriously? I think not.
But then again…maybe it’s just me…
DML, it seems that we could apply that logic to everything and anything that causes one to stumble. It’s logical conclusion leads to the equivalent of being Amish.
We could stop watching secular media, stop listening to secular music, stop listening to certain TYPES of music, stop wearing certain clothes…insert whatever causes Christians to stumble.
This is legalism.
Christianity isn’t about behavior modification. It’s about inward transformation. It’s about freedom.
I will not drink in front of someone who has a personal conviction against it. Alcohol IS about personal conviction. Why? Because the Bible does not say that it is sin. Moreover, it gives thanks to God for making it! Let’s not forget Jesus turned water into wine.
My “Christianity” has never been questioned by unbelievers who know I enjoy wine. Not once.
“To defend a position is a losing battle.” Is not every post here a defense on a standpoint?
David, I don’t know a single unbeliever that would be offended by a Christ follower drinking a beer. I do however know plenty that would be surprised in a good way and through that experience we could open a dialog as to what the bible says about not only alcohol but other spiritual issues. I also know some unbelievers that would assume by your abstaining that you have a holier than thou (used a little kjv for you
) thing going on and wouldn’t want to deal with you. Talk about harmful to your witness…
Perhaps it’s different living in New England verses living in the bible belt. (That’s not a dig but rather an observation).
My dear brothers and sisters. If I have caused “contention in the family” it has not been with any malice or desire. I have not nor do I judge those who choose with their liberty to consume alcohol as a beverage. I do believe it is unwise and it has the potential to take control of one’s life. Thus the heartfelt warning of the Apostle Paul that we take care not to allow things in our life that have the power to take control of our lives.
> could speak better than I to the dangers connected. None ever intended to become anything more than simply a “social drinker” but the stories are sad and they are real. My warnings though evidently taken by some as judgmental are from decades of experience and from a sincere heart. I do thank the writer of the previous post for the good reminder of truth that tells us though all things may be lawful under grace that not all things will tend to build our lives and witness before others and I thank you Marty for a good blog. When God’s children can dialogue even on the “hot topics” it can only be helpful for our understanding.
This Friday night we minister at the city mission in Akron. Most of the men who will be present for the “Three S’s” (soap), (soup) and (salvation)
Richard,
I think these sorts of things among Christians are fruitful to discuss. I don’t think you caused malice divide. Not from me anyway.
Take care.
Marty,
This is a great post! I was raised that alcohol was “evil” and “dangerous” by parents who were 3 pack a day somkers! (imagine how confusing that was) While they were Christ followers. They would drink from time to time but were so afraid of ruining our “whitness” that we couldn’t throw the empty bottles/cans in the recycling bin to go out with the trash! (apparently we would ruin our “witness” with the garbage man or something!) Anyways, this is a message that needs to be presented, while for some alcohol IS a sin for others it’s just another beverage and I respect those who abstain, all I ask is respect for the fact that I don’t!
“beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy”- ben franklin.
I know all about legalism. I grew up in it. Lived it and was part of it. I am delivered from it as well. So I did not need a lesson on legalism nor the Amish.
Legalism is about placing judgment on others, it is about setting life standards for others…it is NOT about having standards upon which you have in your own life.
Billy, I agree, it may be that where you live has some influence on what perspective people may have on whether it is a good or a bad idea for a Christian to drink in public. I know where I live… most non-believers would have issues with it. I have had a few drinks in the privacy of my own home…along with a a few great cigars…I have no issues with it in private settings such as your own home.
As far as the Holier than thou (KJV referenced) issue…”Holier than thou” issues come up when that believer places themselves as a Judge to determine right and wrong for everyone else. I am not placing judgment on anyone else that drinks…I am saying is it not worth losing credibility to other believers or non-believers.
Levite, your definition of Christianity as defined as “Inner Transformation” is appropriate. However…inner transformation is the ultimate behavior modification. Inner transformation is the result of becoming a “new man”. Which is behavior modification. The whole act of repentance is turning the opposite way from your previous behavior. As Paul references all through his writings, the battle with the old man (the person you were before Christ) continues until we die. The new man is called to holiness and while sinless perfection can never be achieved here on earth we are to battle the old man and pursue Christ’s Righteousness.
You also state that you would not drink in front of someone who has a personal convictions about drinking. I agree that drinking is a personal conviction, however, the issue here is that you never really know if others around you have personal convictions against it or not if you are drinking in public. To cause offense for a drink of alcohol is an awfully steep price to pay. I agree with you….the privacy of your own home is the best place for your enjoyment of alcohol.
Richard, No contentions here. I just know that if I am ever up with Billy…or Levite…I know whose house I can go to have a cold one. Would you guys mind if I brought my cigars?
“Legalism is about placing judgment on others, it is about setting life standards for others…it is NOT about having standards upon which you have in your own life.”
I agree. However, your initial post regarding alcohol consumption seemed to proclaim a certain standard to others, not just yourself.
“However…inner transformation is the ultimate behavior modification.”
Agreed. But behavior modification in and of itself is meaningless. It becomes religion.
“The whole act of repentance is turning the opposite way from your previous behavior. ”
Absolutely. I know longer am a slave to the sins that previously owned me. Though I do say that in my former life and my present life I enjoy wine, because the consumption of such is not sin. The overconsumption, of course, is.
“the issue here is that you never really know if others around you have personal convictions against it or not if you are drinking in public. ”
You may never know if what you wear, listen to, eat, or watch is going against someone’s personal convictions either. We cannot always presume who around us will be at odds with what we do. We would be walking on eggshells. I do agree that it is best to use discretion and wisdom. I don’t find much occasion for ordering alcohol when I go out unless I am at a restaurant with my husband, or with a group of friends who are out to enjoy beer with pizza, etc. It is good to be wise about these things, and know who you are with.
Cigars are welcome…and awesome looking corn cob pipes.
Now that was a discussion! thanks to everyone who shared from their hearts and minds. Anyone else?
as a person who struggled greatly in this area before salvation at 25 and has backslid in this area post salvation too many times to count i just wanted to offer a resource i feel has a pretty solid answer
hope it adds to the discussion
ps great site marty !
Question: “What does the Bible say about drinking alcohol / wine? Is it a sin for a Christian to drink alcohol / wine?”
Answer: Scripture has much to say regarding the drinking of alcohol (Leviticus 10:9; Numbers 6:3; Deuteronomy 29:6; Judges 13:4, 7, 14; Proverbs 20:1; 31:4; Isaiah 5:11, 22; 24:9; 28:7; 29:9; 56:12). However, Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. In fact, some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…”
What God commands Christians regarding alcohol is to avoid drunkenness (Ephesians 5:18). The Bible condemns drunkenness and its effects (Proverbs 23:29-35). Christians are also commanded to not allow their bodies to be “mastered” by anything (1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Drinking alcohol in excess is undeniably addictive. Scripture also forbids a Christian from doing anything that might offend other Christians or encourage them to sin against their conscience (1 Corinthians 8:9-13). In light of these principles, it would be extremely difficult for any Christian to say he is drinking alcohol in excess to the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31).
Jesus changed water into wine. It even seems that Jesus drank wine on occasion (John 2:1-11; Matthew 26:29). In New Testament times, the water was not very clean. Without modern sanitation, the water was often filled with bacteria, viruses, and all kinds of contaminants. The same is true in many third-world countries today. As a result, people often drank wine (or grape juice) because it was far less likely to be contaminated. In 1 Timothy 5:23, Paul was instructing Timothy to stop drinking the water (which was probably causing his stomach problems) and instead drink wine. In that day, wine was fermented (containing alcohol), but not necessarily to the degree it is today. It is incorrect to say that it was grape juice, but it is also incorrect to say that it was the same thing as the wine commonly used today. Again, Scripture does not forbid Christians from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. Alcohol is not, in and of itself, tainted by sin. It is drunkenness and addiction to alcohol that a Christian must absolutely refrain from (Ephesians 5:18; 1 Corinthians 6:12).
Alcohol, consumed in small quantities, is neither harmful nor addictive. In fact, some doctors advocate drinking small amounts of red wine for its health benefits, especially for the heart. Consumption of small quantities of alcohol is a matter of Christian freedom. Drunkenness and addiction are sin. However, due to the biblical concerns regarding alcohol and its effects, due to the easy temptation to consume alcohol in excess, and due to the possibility of causing offense and/or stumbling of others, it is usually best for a Christian to abstain entirely from drinking alcohol.
source: gotquestions.org
While I don’t have an issue with consuming alchohol in moderate and responsible amounts, I do see the points about drunk driving, alchoholism and not giving someone a reason to fall, and other issues of intoxication noted above. People were in my home for a BBQ, 17 adults consumed 23 bottles of some form of
beer or wine cooler over a 6 hour period(with a lot left over). The relational nature was a bunch nutty, happy people, our normal state, rather than the effects of alcohol.
When Jesus was looking at our hearts during that time, I believe He noticed our consumtion of drink, food, and delicious desserts were all around friends enjoying each other’s company rather trying to get a buzz going. And the Flying Dog porter(Dark stout)was yummy! Tasted nothing like nasty bread.
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