Peace on the Beach
Peaceful? Or not so much?
Peace is more than just the absence of conflict. One can be in the thick of a fight and be filled with peace. Likewise, another can be sitting on a tropical island sipping pina coladas and waiting for the evening to head to the local casino tourist trap and be swallowed hole with dark, empty feelings.
This is because peace comes directly from God, the One who created us. Peace does not spring forth from our perception of how life should be. God has given each of His guidance, and the extent at which we follow that guidance becomes the extent at which our hearts remain peaceful.
“When people do not accept divine guidance, they run wild.”
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I don’t agree with some of this for this reason: I once thought that all those things that the Bible says come directly from God only Christians could have. Like love and peace and joy, etc. Now maybe we can only truly posess them the way they were meant to be through a relationship with Christ. Than I met people that had love, and didn’t know God. Can you feel love and not be a Christian? Yes. Is it agape truly selfless love that the bible says only God enables people to feel? Who knows I haven’t met enough people to know. So now I think that God creates those things, and they ‘come from Him’ but like the rain or the sun; those thigns come from God also, but you don’t have to be a Christian to have a picnic on a nice day. You don’t have to be in the ‘in’ group to take part in it.
You did say ‘and the extent at which we follow that guidance becomes the extent at which our hearts remain peaceful.’ Which could possibly allow for people following God’s standard without following Jesus can have peace without knowing Him. What do you think?
I don’t like saying that anyone who doesn’t have a personal relationship with Jesus can’t know love or peace or joy because I truly believe that one day a person is gonna walk up to me who isn’t a Christian and is pretty ok with their life and in love and commited to their wife and lives an honest life and instead of saying ‘you need peace in your life which can only come from Jesus!’ I’d rather say, ‘all those things you’ve been enjoying in your life, they come from him. If you think that’s true, give him thanks.’
Again, I don’t know. It just seems like telling 80% of the world ‘all those feelings you have and think are real, well guess what THEY AREN’T!’
Some interesting thoughts Darren. I think it’s important to mention that I used a Proverb, which was the final line of the post. The question is, can people inadvertantly find peace and be a part of God’s plan without being a follower of Christ? This is the great debate. I think they can be peaceful, but I hesitate to believe someone could be completely at peace without Christ.
As far as “telling 80% of the world…” that would be a decision of Gods and not mine. I know He is capable of judging most of the world, if I were to look through Genesis, but to what extent and how He judges our hearts is completely up to Him.
Also, I’m trying to figure out exactly what you don’t agree with because I never mentioned Christ in my post. So I semi-agree with you in that elements of peace and love and joy can be found by “falling into” divine guidance, but I believe there’s a stopping point somewhere along the way.
Having said that, once again, I don’t exactly know where that line is. I do know that it’s not just in some words my lips may speak during an emotional moment.
Thoughts?
p.s. everytime I see that you’ve commented, I prepare myself for some “snot-nosed” comment. This is rather refreshing.
I suppose my worldview isn’t so much about whether God judges 80% of the world or not right now but more along the lines of ‘what makes a good human.’ It is something I have been thinking about some of my past experiences and I think their are a number of Christians that aren’t very good humans. I personally feel that their is something missing with the end of a rational being ‘because God said so.’ All those athiests signs are whack, but I believe they have a sense of God in them when they say ‘don’t be good for ___, be good for goodness sake.’ It is something Christians struggle with, being good knowing their is a referee that will eventually reward you versus falling in love with goodness itself. I know this isn’t new to anyone.
But what I think is more prevelant is the insular attitude and the marginilization of the people you are trying to reach out to. The reason I care at all about this is because I was totally one of those Christians that if I knew a person was having sex with their boyfriend and they said they loved each other I would inwardly disagree with them. Obviously they are living in sin so they cannot experience love.
You don’t mention Christ but you do mention God, and as you are a pastor I’m reading between the lines when you talk about peace you mean salvation and peace through Christ.
I think their is something more to the ‘telling 80% of the world thing’ than the face value, ‘look if you don’t think God judges people look again’ thing. I wasn’t talking about God judging them, I was talking about the legitimacy of them experiencing the fruits of the spirit.
More than anything I think it sends a message to a whole bunch of people that their worldviews and experiences don’t matter. That is my personal feeling about it.
Also, my non-serious comments are the funniest thing about your blog.
And my serious comments generate the best conversation.
SUCKA
Also, I was totally day dreaming today about trying to come to Worcester some time this summer and play volleyball and monopoly with you guys. I still love you Marty!!!!
dude darren, you should go to Wootown in November, because I’ll be there then, and we can have a family reunion.
and I’ll whip your tooshes at monopoly (you know this to be true)
This is a really great discussion. I’ve spent a couple days mulling it over. I don’t disagree with much that’s been written here. And in fact I don’t think that in fact there’s much disagreeing going on.
I think it’s exactly right to recognize that God is the source of good things but that we Christians don’t have a monopoly on these good things.
The love I experience for others as a Christian isn’t deeper or more intense than the love I experienced before I was a Christian.
However, I think that I’m able to feel and give that love more consistently now. When all the human beings in my life are letting me down (as we always will let each other down) now, I know that there is a force more fundamental that still loves, and is love. I was occasionally a new-agey believer in some vague loving fundamental principle, before I was a Christian. What I learned is that worship doesn’t really work in the abstract. I could pay lip service to some nebulous and loving force, but it didn’t really change me.
The other really huge change for me, between being a Christian and not being a Christian is that it used to be that I only saw as evil things that had evil repurcussions. Lust, anger, and all the rest weren’t a big deal, as long as I didn’t act on them, as long as nobody new about them. Without Christ I certainly couldn’t have done much to get rid of them, so that’s probably a bit of a mercy, in some perverse way.
I suppose I don’t have any real way of knowing whether other people who aren’t Christians are much like me. But I suspect many are.
I think what it comes down to is that we might abuse scripture and come up with rationalizations. But if we’re really serious and authentic with our faith, if we take Jesus seriously we don’t do good just to seek out rewards. Ultimately, an atheist has many reasons to simply do things based on it’s intrinsic value. But we’ve got a better, deeper motivation. This doesn’t mean we always follow it.
I think maybe I stopped making sense a couple paragraphs ago. I’ll stop here before I confuse myself further.
[...] questions if you click here to listen to the sermon or click here to watch it. Or even click here, a smallish blog post from Pastor Marty that deals with some of the same [...]
The message of Christ isn’t that your life is going to suck without relationship with him. Rather, it’s that your life is incomplete and value-less without him.
The strength of your feelings is a fluid thing; the authenticity of them is another thing. Sure, you can and do experience the “fruits” of the Spirit on your own, but are they then truly from God? Or are they some lesser counterfeit?
i have $20 in my pocket. It’s paper (cloth actually). It has value only until the person who holds the gold it represents says it doesn’t. The “goodness” you hold is similar. In this life it’s the $20 bill. It is it’s own reward.
i know it’s a bitter pill to swallow, but if all good things come from God then we ought to give him credit for them – on His terms. Lip service is not worship. Simply saying it – or even doing it for that matter – doesn’t mean we are motivated by it. What does God say that he really wants?